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Native %pl
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 847

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul asked Kwn ...
Quote:
How did you get a y interval of 3 and just one significant figure in the y values?


I think you mean decimal places not significant figures Paul ?
In fact there weren't just 1 decimal place, there's a MIX of 1 & 2 decimal places !!!
This is something we've seen before and puzzles me.
It means that the format of the labels is different (just a fixed number of s.f.)

Note also in Ken's last plot on prev. p.19 shows the previously identified problem of axes titles b eing centred only on the +ve part of the axes
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 847

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote ...
Quote:
don't forget that this development as grown out of the existing SIMPLEPLOT %pl.


I thought native &pl was a new entity completely isn't it ?
it has to be because it was enhanced basically because 64 bit hasėd no plot capability whatsoever by definition since Simpleplot is 32bit.

So ųI don't understand the sense of your statement Paul.
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 847

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

silicondale ..... you can tell that's a geological paper you posted a link to as either there was an earthquake of >8 when that pdf was generated or I need those wacky 4D-5D glasses to read it !!!!
... ang on , there might be a frequencu at which I can bob my head up and down which wiill work tooo Wink
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1846
Location: South Pole, Antarctica

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul
How things go with the optimal numbering? Remember, we discussed that for the LOG scale the numbering has to be in the same style, it has to be either so called "engineering" (10, 100, 1000 or 1e2, 1e3, 1e4...) or "scientific" (10^1, 10^2, 10^4). May be good idea would be to introduce the appropriate WINOP@ key. Here is one example what %pl is doing right now
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PaulLaidler
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5419
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan

I have put the work on %pl to one side for now. Other things appear to be more urgent. He have already fixed some bugs and there is one more bug that I know about that is on the list. Hopefully I will be able to release a new set of DLLs before too long.
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silicondale



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 204
Location: Matlock, Derbyshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, John-S -- strange. That link is a simple graphical PDF made by scanning the original printed paper. Shouldn't cause problems even for the latest version of Adobe Reader.
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 847

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you mean you don't see anything strange when you view it in Adobe Silicondale ?

I use Foxit Phantom pdf program , much superior to Adobe I've found Smile
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1846
Location: South Pole, Antarctica

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like opposite to other native PL controls like
Code:
      call winop@("%pl[pen_style=0,pen_style=0,pen_style=0,pen_style=0]")
      call winop@("%pl[symbol=0,symbol=11,symbol=8, symbol=7]")

which set the parameters for each of 4 curves, the symbol_size=dval which specifies the size of symbols of curves (if there are few) not for each of them individually, am I right? In other words,
Code:
      CALL winop@("%pl[symbol_size=16.,symbol_size=22.,symbol_size=1.]")

sets symbol_size =1 for all four curves. Also symbol_size=22 seems causing problems (crash)
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Kenneth_Smith



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 176
Location: Glasgow, Scotland.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,

symbol_size is only specified once and applies to all curves with symbols in the plot. Maximum permitted value is 16.

Ken
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1846
Location: South Pole, Antarctica

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ken. Do you agree this is more a defect then a feature?
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PaulLaidler
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5419
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan

You should get a error report if the symbol size is greater than 16.
This limit can easily be increased. How big would you like it?
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 847

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we've discussed before on the thread how it would be good to have The parameter definitions user-specifiable via arrays/vectors to avoid the bulky way each has to hav eit's parameters specified dėseperately.
When that is implemented it would be sensible to add other options to be specified per curve, such as the symbol size as discussed her, symbol colour, etc... etc .... and this should be already on the 'scheduled enhancements' list.

Informing the User
Speaking of the 'scheduled enhancements' list Paul, you've mentioned things are due out in the next dll beta .dll release but you haven't given a simple list of what improvements there will be.
Chicken and egg situation maybe, but it's a bit like turning the lights off at a party syėaying lots of goodies are being plannedand then when the lights are switched on again everyone finding that their favourite drink/cake still isn't yet on the menu.

We don't have any idea yet when that might be and we don't even know when the personal version of 8.2 will be out even.
Maybe you could enlighten us a little more on these points.

A lot of (free) help has been given by people to debug'/develope the native %pl enhancement and there doesn't appear to be a reciprocal total openness about specifically what's happening and what's going to 'appear'.

The same goes with the sudden appearance of other enhancements.
I may be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be a particular polittic at Silverfrost of 'user consultation in advance' of new features and developments.

Native %pl is a good case in point - it just 'appeared' without surveying user opinion about what should be included (in staged steps of course, no one would expect everything at once)l

Another constructive (I hope) comment
Resources are never infinite of course, and obviously there are other things on the backburner which are no doubt desireable, but I for one would be interested to know some approximate advanced idea of timescales of when when a return to %pl matters is being planned.
We're now a year or so on from it's first appearance and while progress has been good and strides have been made relative to the simpleplot %pl this open-ended stop-start approach to native %pl development isn't particularly re-assurring. I fear we're just going to trundle on without getting the basics sorted robustly and may end up down the line with a Simpleplot2 situation !
If I was Silverfrost I'd be sending someone down to talk to Salford&Manchester/UMIST (I believe now 'integrated') computing departments to get some uni/industrial collaboration going to get some free additional resources sorted ! Smile
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PaulLaidler
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5419
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John

I am sorry that we are not providing the service that you expect. Unfortunately I do not anticipate further improvements to the native %pl in the short to medium term.

The delay from initial release until the release of the personal edition is normally about 2 months but it does depend on whether the initial release has proved to be successful.
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1846
Location: South Pole, Antarctica

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,
Respect to symbol_size. Great that native PL now does not crash the code without diagnostics. That is very appreciated addition. But having restriction based on 16x16 pixel size is decision prone to permanent fixing in the future. It's ok for laptop screen, may be ok for 2k monitors, not enough for 4k and 5k monitors and is not acceptable for 8k.

What size has to be the maximum? I'd not restrict it till integer overflow where warning diagnostics should appear. If this will slow the graphics to total stall then 10x the screen dimensions have to be taken. Why so large? Some people may plot in virtual screens of extremely large dimensions.

Another is making one number for all plots which is fine for for first versions but besides making plotting less flexible is breaking the style of native %pl

Respect to some John's comments. I agree with him that the current shape of native PL needs urgent cosmetic fixing of few last often painful problems. That will take some extreme unsatisfaction with either bugs or missing features off the table. I'd go through this thread, make a list of what was asked for and what was done, reveal such screaming "nails in the shoe" problems, and close this large old thread for good.


Last edited by DanRRight on Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 847

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good idea Dan, not forgetting of course picking up things discussed on the 2 other previous threads with the same name ! where applicable.

I did mention a while back that a checklist of suggestions/bugs needs to be maintained seperately but I'm sure Paul has that under control.

It's just the unknown factor which is 'anti-user' .

My comments above Paul were more for the Silverfrost management than aimed personally at yourself. I think everone appreciates you've put a lot of effort in, it's just that the basics just still aren't solid.
It's surely a question of resources not intent, which is why I made my comments above about you needing more hands to the helm.

I'm personally amazed how you actually just cope with issues on the forum let alone side issues of new development.

I'm also amazed that there aren't more users getting involved on the forum. In the 3-4 years I've been on here now it's stil lthe same 20 or so (30 max) people who've posted either with problems or solutions. Out of around a 1000 registered users that's pretty pathetic (from the users point of view, nothing to do with Silverfrost they can't force people to post.). I kow Dan has tried to encourage people to interact in the past, particularly on the plorėtting issues.

If they're not interested in native %pl then they must be using something different and already mature no ?
But what ?
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