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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1332
Location: North Pole, Russia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mecej4 - We discussed here limit checking few times before, both 72 and 132.
1) First my shield is editor, it shows cursor position, there is no discrepancy between editor and FTN95
2) i made 73 character barrier width of editor for fixed code and larger for 132 one as it has two panels each for different types of sources. But recently i had desktop shuffling and probably changed the sizes
3) i periodically use built into the code source limit checking subprogram i wrote hell decades ago. Basically the code checks itself. Seems I have to make it working automatically every hour by default
4) i strongly advocated for the use of /no_truncate compiler option as default but it was buggy few times and only recently fixed as Paul reported. If this option worked fine this thread would not exist! No tab hatred would be here either. I have nothing against of use of tabs.

That was why i was so sure that this was some kind of devilry because i believed in all my not breakable shields and setups not in the compiler diagnostics.
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mecej4



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which editor do you use?
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1332
Location: North Pole, Russia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoteTab

(awards from PC Magazine, PC World and WUGNET, 3 times Shareware Industry Awards)
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mecej4



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not know about this editor. I downloaded a trial version, opened your file defect.for in it, set the tab size to 8 ( to match FTN95 ) and tab type to 'fixed'. The slash in line-8 was shown in column 73. This is as things should be, but without a visual aid it can be hard to look for that specific column. Other editors show a dotted line at a specified right margin (such as column 72). Perhaps Notetab can do so, too, but I have not found the menu to make that setting effective.

If you are going to rely on your source checker, perhaps you should investigate why it failed in this rather simple case.
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jalih



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally use SPFLite as my source editor. If you have some experience with ISPF or have to edit a lot of old fixed format source files, then its a great tool.

On SPFLite, the visual column markers could be defined, but you could also type a command:
Code:
EX ALL; F P'=' 73 132


This would hide all the lines in the source file and then show only the lines that have something between columns 73-132.
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1332
Location: North Pole, Russia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mecej4, The ultimate right way to handle this type of errors is via compiler only with /no_truncate. Other ways as we all see in my case fail because rely on faulty human psychology. But visual aid definitely a must in editor. In Notetab you have to open second window and scale both panel sizes +1 pixel to the limit. You will see that you touch the margin if you at 73+. I did not notice violation because started using touchscreen recently and make a lot of mistakes in moving and resizing windows with too fat fingers for the 13.3" screen when I remotely control my main computer. Another reason was my arrogance that this kind of errors is unlikely with all my shields. Third was that I actually remember that I checked the limit and the number was around 72 which again and again is ... a devilry LOL. Well, ok, my last reasonable explanation is that in the permanent hurry and very late night I looked at the working file instead of faulty because made few of them when experimented.

There exist few more levels of explanation - aging, for example. Or stress factor. Both became interesting to me. I permanently lose my cellphone, keys, wallet and glasses. Fun is that though I carelessly drop them easily everywhere (these are just few common places though), i can not believe that they are found then with big difficulty and often a lot of swearing typically not in these common places. OK I bought literally 100 glasses. Added police siren into cellphone activated even if it on silence. But still i often lose and couldnt easily find other things.

All my life I make tons of programming errors and thanks to FTN77 and then FTN95 easily find them. Compared to all my colleagues I more became a damn professional bug hunter. LOL. Even more, these skills developed by this compiler push to find errors, lies, tricks everywhere in the life, politics, art, religions... But inability to find the damn wallet or keys literally explodes me. So psychology of this started to be interesting as it may be related to the error I made in this thread. And few others I couldn't easily find. Or could it be more related to psychiatry? Smile. I'm damn serious. How many times I mentioned Altzheimer? Or super-arrogance? I don't hear about similar symptoms from older programmers.
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 404

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easter gifts for DanRRight :O)

The old fashioned way :-

Code:
!----6-10*------20>*------30>*------40>*------50>*------60>*------70>*-E


!-----10>*------20>*------30>*------40>*------50>*------60>*------70>*------80>*------90>*-----100>*-----110>*-----120>*-----130>*-E


and, you're not alone ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kGxN4WnAKk
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 404

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... still though , no ones's explained the MEANING of the error message though (unless I missed it) :O)
Wh yshould it produce that message ?
It would be useful to know for future reference.

... not should we forget the 66666666 labels error messages, that got lost amongst the anti-Tab frenzy.
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JohnCampbell



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following example still produces error 612
Code:
        real*4   Ct_Hull (100,100,100)
        integer  i,j,k, iii
        real     Ctbr_Sum
 
        Ctbr_Sum = Ct_Hull(j,i,k)(iii)
        end

It appears there is a problem suspected with an array section ?
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PaulLaidler
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 4536
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have logged this for investigation.
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1332
Location: North Pole, Russia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Silver,
Thanks for the nice link! In one single post you found me 7 billion of different degree colleagues by insanity Smile

Paul,
Does fixed /no_truncate find this error (my 7.10 does not)?


Last edited by DanRRight on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mecej4



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I felt that "over confident" or "too trusting" would have been more apt than "arrogant" in describing your outlook. And, as someone famous (Mark Twain) said, the issue is well described by "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so".

To compensate for the forgetfulness that comes with age, one can follow the principle of "Trust but Verify" and develop a set of checks and redundancies in one's activities, whether that is about finding keys or exceeding the 72-character limit in fixed format Fortran. After a couple of years, you may be pleasantly surprised to find that you are using these redundant checks less and less, and even old dogs can learn to do old tricks better. See http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/davidmamet478663.html . One more link on finding keys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8e-X15JuCc .
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1332
Location: North Pole, Russia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mecej4, Will think about this, thank you very much for suggestions. And for song! Great i'm not alone. You guys made my day... well... night ...again.

But...Meantime what definitely i have to do ASAP is to stop my workaholic addictive behavior. I found that i lose more time fixing and rewriting stuff later if i'm not in perfect shape, sleepy, tired etc when do programming.

Another is vision. It is very important to have great screen. Amount of information on screen is increasing, fonts decreasing, vision deteriorating, amount of typos skyrocketing.

I plan to change my 2- or 3-monitor setup to 52" 4k monitor for which i think to take latest 4k TV with HDMI 2.0 or Displayport and IPS matrix. That is the size some people recommend for greater productivity, not 27, not 32, not 35 or 40 but >50". I used before 62" screen and found it very pleasant - as to me i will not need to use tricky value very hard to find (+0.5) large size frameless reading glasses then. 50" monitor is OK, they became cheap. But it's kind of stupid to buy today 60-70" 4K TV for being a monitor and to be also a TV because 4K TV needs to be more then 85" in any even small size rooms to see its resolution advantage. Curved screens give additional 10" in angular dimension but all that large size gear did not drop to reasonable prices yet. Any suggestions here, guys? All, don't hesitate to share your productivity tricks and thoughts!
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PaulLaidler
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 4536
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan

Version 7.2 is now available for you to try.
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1332
Location: North Pole, Russia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,
Link says it's still 7.10
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