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acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

Hi,

I'm having major problems with GET_FILTERED_FILE@ within Windows 7 related to the new Win7 file dialog and it's Libraries feature. The problem appears in programs compiled with any version of ftn95 including 5.40 but seems to be dependent upon the size of the Libraries (in this case my Documents library). I'm using Windows 7 x86 (but x64 is the same), Win32 compilation.

What I find is that when I launch a file open dialog initially everything seems okay, but as I navigate through my folders and libraries the right-hand pane of the file dialog starts to take a long time to refresh and eventually ends up showing no files, or hanging and not allowing folder to be selected, or incorrectly showing no entries in the library. This can happen after selecting only a couple of libraries in succession, or after a minute or two of jumping around my folders.

The demo below can be used to repeat the problem

PaulLaidler · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:34 am Post subject:

I cannot give you a definitive answer to this problem, only an intuitive guess.

I suspect that the problem relates to the amount of memory required by the Open/Save File dialog. If this is the case then there is no easy solution.

To start off, I would see if the Task Manager gives any indication of the memory usage in this situation. If you have not used the Task Manager before then you may need to find out how to activate the relevant monitors.

acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

Memory use is around 10MB for a debug build. It does seem to use quite a lot of handles (500 odd) and threads (30) but nothing extortionate in the grand scheme of things. Anyway, I get the same figures when running the VC++ version which doesn't exhibit the problems at all so it seems unlikely to be a memory usage issue (not a straightforward one anyway). I've also tried using the winapi GetOpenFileName directly from Fortran in case the use of a DLL has anything to do with it but the problem persists.

As I mentioned, this same issue occurs on all the three Win7 machines I've tested so it appears to be a major problem and, I'm afraid, appears to be an issue only with FTN95 (albeit probably of Microsoft's making not yours). It's also a show-stopper for anyone hoping to release their software for Win7 Sad

If it helps, I've uploaded the Fortran demo source for VS 2008 to (there's also a binary in there):
http://www.noisemap.ltd.uk/download/TestGetFilteredFile.zip

Also there's a rough and ready VC++ version (which works properly) at:
http://www.noisemap.ltd.uk/download/TestOpenFile.zip

I'd be really interested to know if this occurs on other systems - it's so bad on my main machine that I just have to click on the Documents, then Music, then Pictures entries in the left-hand "Libraries" section to make it all go haywire and I only have 45 top-level folders in my Documents library so I wouldn't say it's an unusual setup. It's sometimes a little better on first login but soon goes wrong.

Also, Win7 uses this new open dialog even if you use the WinAPI directly so there isn't any obvious way of reverting back to the old XP (or even NT) one. The only solution I can think of at the moment is to use a separate C++-based application to implement the file dialog and spawn this as a child process from the Fortran (yuk!!!).

Cheers,
Alan

PaulLaidler · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:32 am Post subject:

I still think it is probably a memory issue. Perhaps we need a different base address for salflibc.dll if it is clashing with one of the APIs. As you imply, it probably has nothing to do with the size or base address of the exe.

acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

I you want me to try anything out I'm only too happy to oblige Smile

acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

Hi,
Has there been any movement on this issue ? As far as I can tell it's the only thing preventing my ClearWin applications from properly supporting Windows 7.
Thanks,
Alan

PaulLaidler · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject:

If you have C++ code that works OK then you can create a C++ function based on this code and compile it using the supplied C++ compiler SCC that comes with FTN95. This can be linked with your other Fortran files in order to access your function from Fortran. There are instructions in the help file on how to access C++ functions from FTN95.

At the moment I am still assuming that the built-in base address of salflibc.dll needs changing for a later release but for the moment we need to wait for any other problems with Windows 7 and salflibc.dll to be reported.

acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

I have tried using a VC++ DLL to launch the dialog using win32 API but it's the same problem. Also tried using win api directly from ftn and it too misbehaved. The only way I can think of getting it to work is launching the dialog from another c++ based process and doing some IPC between the two !!

Out of interest have you been able to reproduce the problem? I know at least one other person has. Any idea when you'll be able to have a look at it - are we talking days, weeks?

Thanks for your help,
Alan

Robert · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 445 Location: Manchester

I have had a try with your example and cannot get it to fail. It seems to navigate around quite happily. Do you know anything in particular that seems to make it happen?

acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

It's only a problem when using the "Libraries" section on the left hand side to select, say, your docs but you need to click around it for a bit. On my system here I click just have to click squentially through the Documents, Music, Pictures and Videos library icons, then back again and by the time I get back to Documents the right hand pane is saying "This folder is empty" when previously it showed all my documents. On other computers it varies. If you keep clicking constantly around the different libraries and within them for a minute of two without having problems I'd say you're not seeing it. I can repeat the problem on a number of machines, including a completely fresh x64 install, and when compiled on different machines as well.
Alan

Robert · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 445 Location: Manchester

I suppose I must have clicked 30 or 40 different directories in the library and favourite sections. I wonder if a funny exception happens, running under sdbg I did see it unloading and loading different DLLs as I navigated. Some DLLs seem to get closed mare than they are opened (which must be a bug)

acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

Maybe it's related - I guess if there are lots of DLLs going in and out there may be resource issues coming into play, or worse if they're being unloaded more than once !

The problem does seem to get worse as time goes on, so if I start up the computer it takes a few more goes to get it going wrong, then after that whenever I bring up a new dialog it happens more quickly. Since I tend to stay logged in and put my machine to sleep each day it may be more noticeable, but it does still happen. Also tried admin, and plain old user accounts with the same problem.

acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

An update - I've managed to find a machine that doesn't seem to have the problem when running the test program: it's a completely fresh install with only a few files/folders in my document library. However when I run any of my proper apps it comes back with avengance. It seems to take a little longer to go wrong with smaller exes but it's still the same basic problem. It also seems to be a little sensitive to the speed of clicking between library entries - if I go too fast it hangs for a bit before showing nothing on the right hand side.

acw · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 165 Location: Darkest Devon

Robert,

I've now tried it again on a new PC with a fresh install of Win 7 x64. I can't seem to repeat the problem with the small test program, but again running any of my more complex ftn apps causes a hang (including those compiled with much older ftn95s years ago that have been running on customer sites for years). Interestingly, if I leave the hung window for a minute or two it will then work for one or two folder clicks before hanging again. It does seem to be linked to the size/complexity of both the executable and the documents folder.

I'd really like to know if there is any progress on this, or the strange DLL issues you noticed. I'm coming under a certain amount of pressure to produce a release and need to decide whether to go for plan B ! I'm still looking to see if I can generate a more complex test that causes the problem all the time.

Robert · Joined: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 445 Location: Manchester

I am not really sure what to suggest as it does not happen for me. I have just had another go and cannot get it to misbehave. I browsed a couple of big source trees and there was no issues. Out of interest, do you have the 'preview' pane turned on? It has caused a few issues for me in other applications (the previewers seem to crash).