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Cannot start Plato
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jjgermis



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 404
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:54 am    Post subject: Cannot start Plato Reply with quote

This is really an interessting occurrence:
    a) When I have Maxwell (FEM software) running I cannot start Plato.
    b) When I close Maxwell I can start Plato as usual.
What could be the reason for this?
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sparge



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is interesting! I have absolutely no idea but I'll make a daft suggestion anyway, if only to find out more about the way in which Plato fails to start: perhaps your FEM software uses so much memory that there's none left for Plato Laughing ? Do you get an error message when you try to start Plato, or does simply nothing happen? You could try running Plato under control of Dependency Walker, that would probably give you a clue.
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jjgermis



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 404
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get no error message - nothing happens. It seems like our administator does not allow (or removed) depends.exe - I could not find it.

Regarding the memory: I simply started the FEM software without loading any project und running no simulation. Still Plato does not starts. Closing the software and Plato runs again.
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sparge



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depends.exe: you won't find it as part of the OS, you need to download it from here:

http://dependencywalker.com/

But it doesn't need to be installed, just unzip and put the three files in a convenient folder and run the exe. No need to worry about administrator Very Happy

You still haven't said what happens when you try to run Plato (or how you are trying to run it).

Andy
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jjgermis



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 404
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I downloaded dependancy walker and can start it without problems Smile I do not know how to run Plato under dependancy walker. Should I first start dependancy walker and the somehow start Plato.

I do the following:
1.) start the FEM software and then
2.) double click on Plato3.exe in the FTN95 folder.

Doing it in this oder causes Plato3 not to start.
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sparge



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

jjgermis wrote:
I downloaded dependancy walker and can start it without problems Smile I do not know how to run Plato under dependancy walker. Should I first start dependancy walker and the somehow start Plato.


Yup, just so. Click File-Open, browse to plato.exe and click OK. The main window will show a tree representation of the exe and the dlls it uses. Click Profile-Start Profiling and in the dialog, click OK to accept all the defaults for now. A whole load of call and return info (or in your case, probably not very much Smile ) will get written to the bottom pane. Click Profile-Stop Profiling when it finishes. Then review content and/or File-Save to write it to disk.

Do this with and without FEM software started first. Compare and contrast.

jjgermis wrote:
I do the following:
1.) start the FEM software and then
2.) double click on Plato3.exe in the FTN95 folder.

Doing it in this oder causes Plato3 not to start.


Can you confirm no error message? Do you even get the little eggtimer momentarily i.e. any sign at all that something is trying and failing to happen?

Andy
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jjgermis



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 404
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The results of the following two cases:
1.) Profiling wihtout the FEM software and
2.) Profiling with the FEM software
are exactly the same (except for the date and some starting address). The file contains some 1800 lines.

When I try to start Plato3 with the FEM software running then there is nothing - no eggtimer, no window and no flicker. Really strange!
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sparge



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

jjgermis wrote:
The results of the following two cases:
1.) Profiling wihtout the FEM software and
2.) Profiling with the FEM software
are exactly the same (except for the date and some starting address). The file contains some 1800 lines.


Butbutbut ... in one case Plato loads and in one case it does not. How can both outputs be exactly the same (unless in case 2 Plato is loading but not showing its UI, misleading you into thinking it is not loading)?

Send me the .dwi files, if you like, I'd be interested to have a look.

You could do 1) again and actually do something with Plato that you could not do with 2) - open a file, for example. The two results would have to be different then. Not sure what it would tell you though Crying or Very sad
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jjgermis



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 404
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The file contains 1800 + lines, but here is the first lines before the tree starts:[code:1:419b0a06e2]*****************************| System Information |*****************************

Dependency Walker: 2.2.6000 (32-bit)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional (32-bit)
OS Version: 5.01.2600 Service Pack 3
Processor: x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 6, GenuineIntel, ~2399MHz
Number of Processors: 2, Mask: 0x00000003
Computer Name: AD046483PC
User Name: adgejo1
Local Date: Donnerstag, 14. Januar 2010
Local Time: 15:23:24 W. Europe Standard Time (GMT+01:00)
OS Language: 0x0407: German (Germany)
Memory Load: 22%
Physical Memory Total: 2,147,483,647 (2048 MB)
Physical Memory Used: 0
Physical Memory Free: 2,147,483,647
Page File Memory Total: 4,294,967,295
Page File Memory Used: 0
Page File Memory Free: 4,294,967,295
Virtual Memory Total: 2,147,352,576
Virtual Memory Used: 74,174,464
Virtual Memory Free: 2,073,178,112
Page Size: 0x00001000 (4,096)
Allocation Granularity: 0x00010000 (65,536)
Min. App. Address: 0x00010000 (65,536)
Max. App. Address: 0x7FFEFFFF (2,147,418,111)

********************************| Search Order |********************************
* *
* Legend: F File E Error (path not valid) *
* *
********************************************************************************

Side-by-Side components (Windows 2000/XP/2003/Vista/+)
[F ] c:\winnt\winsxs\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.2600.5512_x-ww_35d4ce83\COMCTL32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\winsxs\x86_microsoft.windows.gdiplus_6595b64144ccf1df_1.0.6001.22319_x-ww_f0b4c2df\GDIPLUS.DLL
The system's "KnownDLLs" list
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\ADVAPI32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\APPHELP.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\COMCTL32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\COMDLG32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\CRYPT32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\CRYPTUI.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\GDI32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\IMAGEHLP.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\KERNEL32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\LZ32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\MPR.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\MSASN1.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\MSVCRT.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\NETAPI32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\NTDLL.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\OLE32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\OLEAUT32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\OLECLI32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\OLECNV32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\OLESVR32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\OLETHK32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\RPCRT4.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\SECUR32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\SHDOCVW.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\SHELL32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\SHLWAPI.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\URL.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\URLMON.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\USER32.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\USERENV.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\VERSION.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\WININET.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\WINTRUST.DLL
[F ] c:\winnt\system32\WLDAP3
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sparge



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what to make of this. My output looks completely different. Here is the start of mine, below. As you can see, it diagnoses all the calls that are made and the errors and return codes that result. Which is what we want to see Very Happy . You say "file" - do you see the same in the pane at the bottom of the main window? Is there no stuff like mine further down your output? We're both using XP Pro Sp3 so we can't blame Vista or 7 for the difference Confused

Andy
--
Starting profile on 14/01/2010 at 17:56:45

Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional (32-bit), version 5.01.2600 Service Pack 3
Program Executable: c:\program files\silverfrost\ftn95\PLATO.EXE
Program Arguments:
Starting Directory: C:\Program Files\Silverfrost\FTN95Search Path: C:\Program Files\Silverfrost\FTN95;C:\Program Files\Salford Software\FTN95;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\PROGRA~1\IBM\CLIENT~1;C:\PROGRA~1\IBM\CLIENT~1\Shared;C:\PROGRA~1\IBM\CLIENT~1\Emulator;C:\Program Files\IXOS\bin;C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\80\Tools\BINN;C:\Program Files\LVS\Sapphire312

Options Selected:
Simulate ShellExecute by inserting any App Paths directories into the PATH environment variable.
Log DllMain calls for process attach and process detach messages.
Hook the process to gather more detailed dependency information.
Log LoadLibrary function calls.
Log GetProcAddress function calls.
Log debug output messages.
Automatically open and profile child processes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Started "PLATO.EXE" (process 0x8D8) at address 0x00400000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "NTDLL.DLL" at address 0x7C900000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "KERNEL32.DLL" at address 0x7C800000. Successfully hooked module.
DllMain(0x7C900000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "NTDLL.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x7C900000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "NTDLL.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x7C800000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "KERNEL32.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x7C800000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "KERNEL32.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
Injected "DEPENDS.DLL" at address 0x08370000.
DllMain(0x08370000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "DEPENDS.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x08370000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "DEPENDS.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
Loaded "VERSION.DLL" at address 0x77C00000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "USER32.DLL" at address 0x7E410000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "GDI32.DLL" at address 0x77F10000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "COMDLG32.DLL" at address 0x763B0000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "ADVAPI32.DLL" at address 0x77DD0000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "RPCRT4.DLL" at address 0x77E70000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "SECUR32.DLL" at address 0x77FE0000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "COMCTL32.DLL" at address 0x773D0000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "MSVCRT.DLL" at address 0x77C10000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "SHLWAPI.DLL" at address 0x77F60000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "SHELL32.DLL" at address 0x7C9C0000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "WINSPOOL.DRV" at address 0x73000000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "OLEDLG.DLL" at address 0x7DF70000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "OLE32.DLL" at address 0x774E0000. Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "OLEAUT32.DLL" at address 0x77120000. Successfully hooked module.
Entrypoint reached. All implicit modules have been loaded.
DllMain(0x77C00000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x0012FD30) in "VERSION.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x77C00000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x0012FD30) in "VERSION.DLL" return
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jjgermis



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 404
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, the data taken from the log window is the bottom part of the .dwi file. Again the files are identical. For some reason it seems like Plato is not displayed. This only occurs when the (commercial) FEM software is running.

This is what it looks like:
Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting profile on 15.01.2010 at 06:36:14

Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional (32-bit), version 5.01.2600 Service Pack 3
Program Executable: c:\programme\salford software\ftn95\PLATO3.EXE
Program Arguments:
Starting Directory: C:\Programme\Salford Software\FTN95Search Path: C:\Program Files\CatPC\Bin;C:\Program Files\CatPC\Windows\System32;C:\Programme\MiKTeX 2.7\miktex\bin;C:\Programme\Salford Software\FTN95;C:\WINNT\system32;C:\WINNT;C:\WINNT\System32\Wbem;C:\WINNT\Rialto\Tools;C:\WINNT\system32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0;C:\Program Files\IXOS\bin;C:\Programme\MATLAB\R2008a\bin;C:\Programme\MATLAB\R2008a\bin\win32;C:\Programme\TortoiseSVN\bin;C:\Programme\epstool-3.08\bin;c:\programme\nsis;C:\Programme\Intel\Compiler\Fortran\9.1\IA32\Bin;C:\Programme\Intel\Compiler\Fortran\9.1\EM64T\Bin;C:\Programme\Intel\IDB\9.1\IA32\Script;C:\Programme\epstool-3.08\bin;C:\Programme\MinGW\bin

Options Selected:
     Simulate ShellExecute by inserting any App Paths directories into the PATH environment variable.
     Log DllMain calls for process attach and process detach messages.
     Hook the process to gather more detailed dependency information.
     Log LoadLibrary function calls.
     Log GetProcAddress function calls.
     Log debug output messages.
     Automatically open and profile child processes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Started "PLATO3.EXE" (process 0xE24) at address 0x00400000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "NTDLL.DLL" at address 0x7C900000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "KERNEL32.DLL" at address 0x7C800000.  Successfully hooked module.
DllMain(0x7C900000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "NTDLL.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x7C900000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "NTDLL.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x7C800000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "KERNEL32.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x7C800000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "KERNEL32.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
Injected "DEPENDS.DLL" at address 0x08370000.
DllMain(0x08370000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "DEPENDS.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x08370000, DLL_PROCESS_ATTACH, 0x00000000) in "DEPENDS.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
Loaded "VERSION.DLL" at address 0x77C00000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "USER32.DLL" at address 0x7E410000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "GDI32.DLL" at address 0x77F10000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "COMDLG32.DLL" at address 0x763B0000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "ADVAPI32.DLL" at address 0x77DD0000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "RPCRT4.DLL" at address 0x77E70000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "SECUR32.DLL" at address 0x77FE0000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "COMCTL32.DLL" at address 0x773D0000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "MSVCRT.DLL" at address 0x77C10000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "SHLWAPI.DLL" at address 0x77F60000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "SHELL32.DLL" at address 0x7C9C0000.  Successfully hooked module.
Loaded "WINSPOOL.DRV" at address 0x73000000.  Successfully hooked module.
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jjgermis



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 404
Location: Nürnberg, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The complete log file is to big, but the last few lines are as given below.
Code:
DllMain(0x77F60000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "SHLWAPI.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x77F60000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "SHLWAPI.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x77C10000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "MSVCRT.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x77C10000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "MSVCRT.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x77DD0000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "ADVAPI32.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x77DD0000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "ADVAPI32.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x77E70000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "RPCRT4.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x77E70000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "RPCRT4.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x77FE0000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "SECUR32.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x77FE0000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "SECUR32.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x7E410000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "USER32.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x7E410000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "USER32.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x77F10000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "GDI32.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x77F10000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "GDI32.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x77C00000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "VERSION.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x77C00000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "VERSION.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x08370000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "DEPENDS.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x08370000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "DEPENDS.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x7C800000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "KERNEL32.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x7C800000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "KERNEL32.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
DllMain(0x7C900000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "NTDLL.DLL" called.
DllMain(0x7C900000, DLL_PROCESS_DETACH, 0x00000001) in "NTDLL.DLL" returned 1 (0x1).
Exited "PLATO3.EXE" (process 0xE24) with code 0 (0x0).
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sparge



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually meant to email me the dwi files but I realise now that my email address was not exposed in my profile. I've changed that now; if you would like to email them to me, I'd be interested to take a look.

But certainly yes, on the face of it, it seems that my "silly" suggestion is actually the reality: Plato is loading as normal but not exposing its UI, when the FEM software is loaded. How very odd. Over to the Silverfrostians, I guess.
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sparge



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Johannes,

I did a byte-by-byte comparison and, even disregarding differences of timestamp and process ID, it is still not quite true that the files are identical. There are two small differences whose significance I cannot interpret because they are in binary sections of the files:
- byte 30C: 0x15 without FEM, 0x17 with FEM
- bytes 364-7: 0x7DC631DD without FEM, 0x208E53D2 with FEM
Maybe a little more homework than I was able to devote might track down a person or forum where you could find out what these bits of the file signify.

There are some missing modules and functions that Plato3 is trying to use:
- there are three DLLs that are evidently Plato-related (plato3deu.dll, plato3enu.dll and plato3loc.dll) which are missing libraries that it is trying and failing to load
- there is a DLL (msctf.dll) that is missing from which it is trying and failing to to get quite a few procedure addresses
- there are four functions (FlsAlloc, FlsGetValue, FlsSetVAlue and FlkFree) that Plato3 (and also hcdll2_f_win32.dll, whatever that is associated with) is trying and failing to find in kernel32.dll

When I profile Plato (4, not 3 admittedly), I make similar observations:
- plato3enu.dll and plato3loc.dll are missing (but plato3dev.dll isn't; presumably this bit the dust in the transition to Plato4)
- all the same issues with msctf.dll
- the same issues with the four kernel32.dll functions (except on my machine, it is msvcr80.dlll rather than hcdll2_f_win32.dll that is also trying to find them)

Since I can run Plato normally (and so can you, when Maxwell is not interfering) it seems unlikely that one of these things is mission-critical. But perhaps with Maxwell loaded there is some other error condition that makes it so.

The only other thing I can think of to try is to profile Maxwell as well - perhaps you will find something there that might give a hint as to why it won't play nicely with Plato? The killer thing to would be to profile them "as a double act" i.e. to include the Plato3 profile in the Maxwell profile, as it were - but I don't know if this is possible.

Good luck!

Andy
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PaulLaidler
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5902
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some files here that I do not recognise and are not shipped with Plato, for example plato3deu.dll etc. I have no idea what they are for. On the other hand the file msvcr80.dlll is more interesting. It is presumably a Microsoft system file that may well be needed by Plato and potentially could be missing.
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