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Native %pl - Bug #101 (Minor) - Axis Captions Positioning
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, can you post the plot produced from the program after fixing please.
Ta
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John-Silver



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, you obviously missed my previous comment/request.

Now that 8.4 is out could you generate the fixed plot please.

It's so that I can be sure a couple of other bugs ready to post are not already fixed, in which case I won't waste your time with them.

Ta.
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John-Silver



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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got round to checking this reported bug had been fixed.

So, after installing v8.4 (Perso) I get ...


The Y-axis centreing is indeed now achieved .


The Y axis no longer TOUCHES the end of the tick label as it previously did !
Additional spacing has now been added.


The X-axis has now been positioned automatically (?) by the program at the bottom edge of the plot area.

Why was this done ? since it should really be optional.

The x-axis label and ticks numbering could/should be placed to the top of the axis could quite easily be achieved.


However, something odd has now happened to the scaling of the Y-axis.

The scaling is fixed in the program to be multiples of 1000 (as on originally generated plot at beginning of this post).

However, now the generated scales are can be seen positioned at 400, 1400, 2400, etc....
Odd. And obviously undesireable.

The same type of undesireable tick locations is, as before, evident on the X-axis also. 3e4, 6e4,9e4 is not exactly a 'useful selection' !
Where do those spacings originate - can't they be made 'regular spacing ?
The answer is obviously 'yes'.
At the moment they are clearlyunuseable !

Not also a couple of things I didn't mention on the original bug report, although they were pretty ovýbvious and I was hoping that they would have been picked up and treated/solved a s a matter of course.
They are still present.
These are:-

Y axis tick labels TOUCH the ends of the tick marks !
There should be spacing.

A +600 tick mark should exist and should be labelled
¨Probably also a '0' labelled tick markat the axes intersection.

What Happens When We Re-scale ?
Rescaling of the plot is still problematic (another not-as-yet-reported bug in relation to this bug post) when the window is re-sized. This type of behaviour has previously been reported - for different problems however, so it's not 'new'.

Strange re-adjustments and resulting overlaps/disappearances of axes captions and tick labels occurs depending on what exactly is attempted.u'll
Have a try and you'll see.

There ya go ... 'more work still needed' is the conclusion.
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PaulLaidler
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John

Can you provide a link to the source code for this sample.
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, Source code is on previous page at the beginning of this thread.

I agree with John that numbers and tic marks have some space between. Including the same in LOG plots.

As to choosing good numbers as tic marks - this could be hard to implement. Currently plotter makes reasonable number of tic marks (not too many or too little) and teach it to choose additionally good looking for humans rounded numbers could be daunting task. This may need manual adjustment.

Here also my suggestions which could be easily implemented

1) I'd add also that "framed" part has to automatically take the same line width as other axis have. For it to be 1 pixel wide by default is not reasonable.

2) Can Y-axis numbering position be adjusted manually respect to ends of tick marks in case it is needed?
(I suppose the Y axis caption text will try to position itself centered automatically using available space till possible, but could be also adjusted manually)
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John-Silver



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,
source code is at the top of this post, on p.1 .

John
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John-Silver



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,

Paul did say to mention %pl bugs one at a time (which is why i started my personal way of numbering my native %pl bug reporting posts.
But in this case your comments are 100% valid as they're relevant to the curve in hand and could possibly be taken into account at the same time as resolving the ticks proximity issues.
They're also, for the most part, long-standing observations from past posts.

Quote:
1) I'd add also that "framed" part has to automatically take the same line width as other axis have. For it to be 1 pixel wide by default is not reasonable.


I seem to remember you mentioning this before.
IMO there should evntually be an option, either as is at moment or as you say all the same ... or indeed NONE on the top/rh sides ! Everyone has their own personal preference, for different reasons/applications.

Quote:
2) Can Y-axis numbering position be adjusted manually respect to ends of tick marks in case it is needed?


Good suggestion Dan.
This could easily be achieved by making the spacing a user-mofiable parameter. As could the spacing between labels and caption.

Quote:
(I suppose the Y axis caption text will try to position itself centered automatically using available space till possible, but could be also adjusted manually)

The Y axis caption position is already 'manually'-adjustable I believe.
Personally I'm no fan of 'adjustment' and prefer 'placement'.

I made a request a while back on a seperate post to have the possibility to know both: the length of tick marks, spacing between tick mark and label, the font and it's size used for tick marks (to be able to calculate the length of the labels, and the spacing between beginning of labels and the axis cqption.
I think it as put on the wish-list.
With these it would be possible for the user then to accurately 'adjust the position' of user-defined' captions (using DRAW_CHARACTERS after suppressing the automatic captions - as provided for a while ago now).
Which would have to be done 'dynamically' also to cater for window size changes if present.

Of course eventually as well as these spacings the font type and size for labels could be also made parametric.

I think the difficulty (well not difficulty bu more 'fastidiousness' of doing this could be getting it right for window size changing, which already has it's 'challenges' waiting to be ironed out.
'Fastidiousness' of course means time , and hence resources, of both types.
So I guess the wait might be undefineable.
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Last edited by John-Silver on Mon May 27, 2019 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John-Silver



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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding:

Quote:
As to choosing good numbers as tic marks - this could be hard to implement. Currently plotter makes reasonable number of tic marks (not too many or too little) and teach it to choose additionally good looking for humans rounded numbers could be daunting task. This may need manual adjustment.


It's not at all 'daunting, but once again fastidious.
We had a discussion I remember on one of the 'Native %pl' posts (there are 3 posts with exactly the same title) about auto-scaling.

This particular subject probably needs a seperate dedicated post for discussion in order not to divert the present one from it's particular bug-resolving topic. I'll see what I can do.

'Manual sdjustment' may be practical for an individual plot, but if you've got say a dozen , or even 100's to process it becomes impractical/unfeasible to adjust manually imo.

I guess the question for Paul is:
how much effot is required to 'attack' the question of scales ?
is it just a question of plugging in a relevant routine followed by a bit of tweaking ? or is it much more complicated than that ?
I guess what I'm asking: 'is it reasonable in terms of the resources available to you to ask you to consider knocking the scales selection into a more robust state ? ... and if yes, what sort of timescale would it imply ?
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John-Silver



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm bumping up this post as the outstanding issues here are similar and complementary to those raised by DanRRight here:-
http://forums.silverfrost.com/viewtopic.php?t=4046
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LitusSaxonicum



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of interest, are these issues resolved withing SimDem? The examples seem to indicate that they are.

If so, (a) why not use it, (b) whoever's fixing %pl knows where to go for the answers !

If not, then ?

Eddie
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PaulLaidler
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddie

At the moment there is no overlap in this sense. SimDem provides a set of routines that call into the ClearWin+ library.
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LitusSaxonicum



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Paul,

What I meant was that the algorithms might be there.

Alternatively, John & Dan could use it, perhaps by extracting the bits they need.

Eddie
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John-Silver



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:-
Quote:
At the moment there is no overlap in this sense. SimDem provides a set of routines that call into the ClearWin+ library.


Just to clarify for Eddie's benefit, Simdem/Simfit is a completely seperate plotting code.
It makes no calls to %pl (of any flavour) .

It includes a 'ClearWin generated' front end (i.e. menus) and that's where the link to ClearWin which Paul refers to comes in.

Therein lies the problem in using it, when you call the simdem/Simfit routines you get the menus whether you want them or not.

It effectively creates a seperate SimDem/Fit graphics window with the options for realtime 'interactivity'.

It could suit some peoples needs but for others not.

Bill Bardsley, the SimFit guru deserves more credit than he gets I think just for maintaining it and trying to keep it 'modern and relevant'.

From the examples I've seen the answer to your question Eddie is no, the issues raised for %pl do not occur (because essentually the plotting routines are independently developed over a large number of years.
There could be the odd exception but it's pretty robust.


Of course it has a full panoply of plot types available too, not just 2-D X-Y.
It also has stacks of interpolation and curve fitting routines (it's original moticývational raison d'etre).

The source code is there freely available for Silverfrost to develop, if the fancy takes one.
It just needs judicious filtering out of the ClearWin front end to leave just the plotting routines.
Morceau de gateau as the french say.

There is only bug fixing support to mere mortals, which is understandable being a Uni originated free-to-aair offering.

Then again SF are not mere mortals are they Smile

I believe there have been one or two organisations (e.g. Salamanca(?) Uni) who have already taken the source code nd developed it to their liking.

I got as far as listing out the subroutine tree for just one of the main plot routines. It's a bit of a redwood because the code is well structured and modulated in lots of subroutines.

Of course, one could end up in a penguin's paradise which would be ok if you use Linux I guess Wink
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