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Visual Studio plugin issues
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1079
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G'day John C,

Pivot tables ..... isn't that the feature that weighs the sam as a duck ? Wink (to us amateurs in spweadsheeting that is Smile

They also star in many hollywood full action blockbusters like ....

Apivotable ... Now !
Full Metal Pivot Table
A Pivot Table Too Far
Saving Private Pivot Tables

and more recent fodder ...

Rise of The Planet of The Pivot Tables
Harry Potter and The Pivot Table of Itriditwonce Budidntlikit
Pirates that Excel - The Curse of the Pivot Tables

etc ... etc ...

incl. that one from your neck of the woods ....

Crocodile Pivot Table

Wink

You can't beat a good fortran program, not least because the idiots out there (i.e. ALL of us) can't then meddle with it !!!!!
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''Computers (HAL and MARVIN excepted) are incredibly rigid. They question nothing. Especially input data.Human beings are incredibly trusting of computers and don't check input data. Together cocking up even the simplest calculation ... Smile "
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LitusSaxonicum



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 1969
Location: Yateley, Hants, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a serious note, it's over a week, and no-one has offered us the slightest reason to use VS/.NET, except Paul, who points out that the VS IDE is good for debugging .NET FTN95 programs. That is something of a given, I should think.

Well, I suppose it would be, if FTN95 would install in the latest VS versions!

Eddie
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mecej4



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1092

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

LitusSaxonicum wrote:
... the VS IDE is good for debugging .NET FTN95 programs. That is something of a given, I should think.

Well, I suppose it would be, if FTN95 would install in the latest VS versions


I am afraid that keeping up with the frequent VS updates that MS releases can consume a lot of attention and effort. Even mighty Intel had a major problem for a number of weeks between August and October, see https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/intel-visual-fortran-compiler-for-windows/topic/784330 .
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LitusSaxonicum



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 1969
Location: Yateley, Hants, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mecej4,

I suspect that the difficulties of continuing to support VS / .NET integration with FTN95 make it a complete and utter waste of time, but I would like to see the answers to my questions, as I could be convinced to change my view in the right circumstnces.

It is interesting that Intel found it difficult to respond to changes in VS. I think we shouldn't expect FTN95 integration any time soon.

I don't think I will lose much sleep over it.

Eddie
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PaulLaidler
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5835
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is worth noting that the various versions of Visual Studio generally provide incremental updates to the IDE and from my perspective the changes can sometimes be simply cosmetic and unwelcome.

I use VS for C/C++ programming (the language used in the construction of FTN95, ClearWin+, Plato etc.) and I have recently started using the 2013 version. Whereas 2013 has some new features (for C++) that I really like, it also has some automatic responses that I find really irritating. The result is that on balance there is little advantage (for me) to move up to 2013. I haven't even contemplated upgrading to 2017.

For FTN95 programmers, one advantage of using Plato is that Silverfrost has access to the whole of the code which means that it is relatively easy to fix bugs and to respond to requests for improvement.
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KL



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Approximately 4 weeks ago, Robert had sent me the alpha version of the new Visual Studio (VS) 2017 Fortran plugin for testing. This version works very well, and -for the moment- only minor issues need further attention. For my work, this is an essential contribution for using Fortran within VS and I would like to acknowledge Robert’s work.
Just a comment to the question why using VS:
For large Fortran projects I prefer VS instead of Plato. Advantages are
- VS has been designed for large projects
- Same IDE for projects in different languages
- An excellent tool for developing any GUI by offering a graphical designer window, with a comprehensive toolbox for controls etc., which can easily be configured (size, location, font, colors). The switch between design view and code view allows a seamless development.
- Projects written in different languages can be combined in one solution.
Size and complexity of VS may be considered as disadvantage. However, in contrast to several remarks in this forum, I consider the more or less “continuous” update of versions (similar to Windows 10) as uncritical.
Thus, I am awaiting the official release of the VS 2017 plugin with greatest interest.
Klaus
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LitusSaxonicum



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 1969
Location: Yateley, Hants, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klaus,
While not explicitly answering my questions, your recent post clarifies some issues for me in a helpful way. If I may paraphrase your answers:
1. You like VS better than PLATO.
2. VS is better for large projects.
3. VS integrates different languages better (and here I assume computer languages).
4. VS has a visual design mode.
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LitusSaxonicum



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 1969
Location: Yateley, Hants, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... continued (for some reason the Forum posted my incomplete message and won't let me edit it).

So (1) is a matter of taste, fair enough. As far as (2) goes, what is the definition of 'big', and does PLATO actually have a size limitation? (3) Seems fair enough, but then that doesn't apply to anyone who uses just Fortran. I can see that (4) could be a real issue for some. Many thanks for the insight.

Eddie
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PaulLaidler
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5835
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early versions of Plato had problems with dependency checking. This was particularly apparent for large projects. The current Plato works well with large projects as far as I know.
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KL



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last summer, I had some problems with Plato to define a Fortran project consisting of approximately 550 subroutines or functions. I had to include the files in several 'packages' of about 100 routines. After I had included such a 'package' the dependency checker started to work automatically, which I did not noticed immediately. Any attempt to include further files ended in a disaster. So it took some time to build up the project.

I also had a problem with Plato's dependency checker when I modified a global variable in a module, which is used in more or less all routines.

I am glad to hear that these problems have been solved and I will have a look to Plato again when the latest ftn95 PE version will be released.

I completely agree with your comments, Eddie. Of course, we should always keep things as simple as possible.

Klaus
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KL



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last summer, I had some problems with Plato to define a Fortran project consisting of approximately 550 subroutines or functions. I had to include the files in several 'packages' of about 100 routines. After I had included such a 'package' the dependency checker started to work automatically, which I did not noticed immediately. Any attempt to include further files ended in a disaster. So it took some time to build up the project.

I also had a problem with Plato's dependency checker when I modified a global variable in a module, which is used in more or less all routines.

I am glad to hear that these problems have been solved and I will have a look to Plato again when the latest ftn95 PE version will be released.

I completely agree with your comments, Eddie. Of course, we should always keep things as simple as possible.

Klaus
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