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Visual Studio plugin issues
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Robert



Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 261
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Visual Studio plugin issues Reply with quote

If you are using the Visual Studio plugin and you have a bug or issue can you post a description in this thread. If you are using the plugin and have no problems can you also post in this thread so we can get a feeling for how many people are using it.
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1079
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are at least 3 users of recent times who were struggling without the update to VS 2017 compatability. Look hre:

http://forums.silverfrost.com/viewtopic.php?t=3809&highlight=2017

OR here

http://forums.silverfrost.com/viewtopic.php?t=3813&highlight=2017

And here

http://forums.silverfrost.com/viewtopic.php?t=3785&highlight=2017
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StamK



Joined: 12 Oct 2016
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a C++ program that calls my Silverfrost DLL.
Is there a way I can debug the Fortran using Visual studio 2015 (as I cannot use sdbg64 in this scenario)? So basically I start debugging the C++ program in Visual studio and when it gets into a call in the Fortran DLL, it will continue debugging (Fortran inside VS). Is that possible?
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PaulLaidler
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5835
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know but if you build your DLL using /DEBUG on the command line then you could try stepping into a Fortran routine when stepping through your C++ code.
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KL



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have expressed my point of view already in earlier threads, where I have also given some remarks concerning the present Visual Studio plug-in. Just to summarize: Making Fortran a .NET language would certainly be one promising route of using (old) Fortran programs in a modern environment. A revised and consolidated ftn95 plug-in for the latest Visual Studio version would be ideal for further testing this route. Visual Studio is an excellent IDE and offers an easy-to-use GUI.
Klaus
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narayanamoorthy_k



Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 141
Location: Chennai, IN

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,
Is this resolved in the latest FTN95 8.40? .... The long awaited support fix?..
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Thanks and Regards
Moorthy
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LitusSaxonicum



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 1970
Location: Yateley, Hants, UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone who is a Visual Studio enthusiast or user explain the benefits of the system relative to the other options in FTN95 please?

Given that FTN95 has its own IDE (Plato) which is fully integrated with the compiler and its help file system, why is VS’s IDE any better? (Klaus says: “Visual Studio is an excellent IDE and offers an easy-to-use GUI.” Doesn’t Plato? Are we talking about the user interface for the IDE or the ability to build a program with a GUI?)

If it is a case of building a program with a GUI, then given that FTN95 has Clearwin+, does the Visual Studio and/or .NET (if they are different) approach give the programmer a quicker route? Or a better finished result? e.g. with VS, can you do things that there are no equivalents for in Clearwin+, such as movable toolbars or a “ribbon”?

Klaus also says that VS is a “promising route of using (old) Fortran programs in a modern environment.” OK, it’s an approach – one of several. But is it better (or more “promising”) than any other routes (console, or via Winapp/Clearwin+) outside VS? For example, is there a 64-bit VS version? Isn’t the compiler effectively the same, with the same error messages, or is it better when integrated with VS? If so, in what way? Might it be faster, or generate smaller code? Or not?

In UK currency, VS 2017 Enterprise is GBP3k, Pro is GBP400, and Community is free. What don’t you get in the free version?

Finally, is VS 2017 better in any significant ways than previous versions that FTN95 will integrate with? If so, what are they?

Eddie

Edit: 1st January 2019. Given that there is now a Visual Studio 2019, perhaps there is a question over Visual Studio 2017 support - is there?
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1079
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddie,
all valid questions and I'm guessing that, as for all programs, for 99% of people the best is 'the one I'm currently using' !

Familiarity usually breeds contempt of all other Smile

For many it will also be 'the microsoft office syndrome' i.e. my company uses it so do I so I. Coupled with refusal of companies usually to even consider running 2 software of 'same type', even when both hav their advantages and disadvantages. Often stemming from 'hard decisions' across different sites within larger companies.

All in the name of 'efficiency' (i.e. saving a few pounds here and there whilst throwing it out of the window for other things.
The worst case (and I'm sure we've all seen it in one guise or another) the 'you hve to spend your budget by the end of the year because you can't carry underspend over to the next year' utter nonsense.

Many sofware developers are also guilty of , devloping across areas of perceived need without actually asking their users what they actually want/need, then throwing things at them in a barrage of publicity.
M$ bing the main culprits of course - I mean what does anyone need more than Office 2003 ... but they keep on telling us otherwise ... and the same companies that waste their money cia their own decisions perpetuate the myth by bufing into it at some point instead of looking at and assessing the much cheaper competition out there !

The lunatics have taken over the asylum, long ago.
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LitusSaxonicum



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 1970
Location: Yateley, Hants, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent contribution, John, but nary an answer to any of my questions. Of course, that's because no-one is working across the weekend and into the New Year, or maybe ...
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JohnCampbell



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2079
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

Your latest post started so well !
"with refusal of companies usually to even consider running 2 software of 'same type'"

Then followed it up with "I mean what does anyone need more than Office 2003"

The company I previously worked for refused to allow me to USE Excel 2007, which was the version that allowed substantially larger sheet sizes. "We have standardised on Office 2003" was their response, with no idea of why I might need a larger sheet size.

My response was I bought and installed Excel 2007, as I had administrator rights for FTN95 installs, which they also did not understand, but I had been using since before they became an IT department.

As an engineer, an IT department is not my friend !

John
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1079
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddie,
I'm not really qualified to give any answrs re- VS, but my understanding is that it is a much wider 'environment' than Plato, which i specifically geared to ftn95 and sf-C programming.
Not sure for example if you can point Plato to say the Intel fortran compiler, or other.
A 64 bit version of VS would do noting for generated proram size/speed !!! It's just the front-end not a compiler.
Just like ftn95/Plato which is only 32bit !!!!!
I might be mistaken here but when Paul announces 64-bit version of Plato recently, isn't that just that it caters for the 64bit compiler (and debugger) ????
I don't think it's itself 64bit.
Could be wrong of course.
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''Computers (HAL and MARVIN excepted) are incredibly rigid. They question nothing. Especially input data.Human beings are incredibly trusting of computers and don't check input data. Together cocking up even the simplest calculation ... Smile "


Last edited by John-Silver on Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1079
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John C,
Point taken - but you shouldn't be using spreadsheets so big ! (imo)

Reminds me of mid 80's and the office where I worked in Stevenage and our 'pioneer' (or should that be pies in his ears Smile ) who took on, one-handed, sorting FE results data using ...... (trumpet chorus) .... Lotus 123 !
His runs took hours - we meanwhile used the sorting program on the mainframe (his was the only PC in the officeas you can imagine).
Spreadsheets are fine for one-offs - and even then they are never really documented !
If thye person who wrote it kicks the bucket tomorrow there is always a doubt that something is hidden somewhere.
I won't even go into the need for checking (against hand calcs) of any spreadsheet (or fortran program for that matter !!!!
I've uncoverd my fair share of bugs in programs in my time - to the surprise of those using them !!!

Anyway I digress, the point is you don't need such large spreadsheets !!!! If it don't fit on 1 (ok, or 2) screens then it's too cumbersome !!!

Then again, that's just me with my healthy scepticism for these neew fandangled tools.

I have a philosophy in general which says: ' any young engineer should not be let near a computer for 6 months (at least) - hand calcs, hand sorting of results (green paper and highlighter anyone ! Wink )

Too much wasted time can be attributed to young uns let loose with todays modern technology and who create FE models, for example, which are like 10 times too big 'just because they can be generated'.

Ooooh all that data (too much data) which has to be processed, documented, it all takes time doesn't it.

Rant over.

Tune in next week and i-'ll take you on a magical mystery tour of 'How the hell did engineers become secretaries ?' .... a thesis on how stupid it is that highly trained engineers spend a huge amount of time 'tapping' out documents ... and don't get me going on powerpoint !
Much better when there were typing pools, and even individual office secretaries, remember those ! Smile
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''Computers (HAL and MARVIN excepted) are incredibly rigid. They question nothing. Especially input data.Human beings are incredibly trusting of computers and don't check input data. Together cocking up even the simplest calculation ... Smile "
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JohnCampbell



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2079
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John S,

You said "you shouldn't be using spreadsheets so big"
I use them with pivot tables; the best way to analyse results.
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LitusSaxonicum



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 1970
Location: Yateley, Hants, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To both of you, thanks for your contributions, but the questions were really very serious and if there were appropriate answers to many of them might well consider using the visual studio approach. I suspect, however, that the answers are that it’s somewhat different, with one or two benefits but actually rather a lot of disbenefits, and so it is worth persevering with what I’m using already.

Remember please that this is a VS thread (said by someone who regularly goes off-topic) and I’m interested in answers to the VS queries. (I’m also interested in this discussion, but it ought to be in ‘General’).

Eddie
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PaulLaidler
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5835
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are using .NET and FTN95 then the VS IDE becomes very useful (if not indispensable) for debugging.

VS is better than Plato in certain peripheral areas (for example when it comes to editing images). if there other areas directly related to FTN95 where VS is considered to be better then please let me know.
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