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(Maybe Not Quite So) Simpleplotting

 
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1520
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 8:40 am    Post subject: (Maybe Not Quite So) Simpleplotting Reply with quote

Having first read through the forum posts on the subject and then having scanned the manuals I'm intrigued by the seemingly endless possibilities for the use of Simpleplot within FTN95/CLEARWIN. There seems to be a lot of power under the bonnet (that's 'hood' for any of our american cousins reading Wink ) as we might say, waiting to be explored.

I have a couple of very simple questions which have arisen:

1. In the on-line manual (Simpleplot Introduction) it says "Extensions are available for contouring and surface pictures, presentation graphics for high quality output and representations of 4D data."

What is meant by these 'extensions' ?

2. when using %pl , I assume that this is just a series of calls to simpleplot routines with 'default' parameters used for many things. i.e. it's a Simple simpleplot.
In fact it's just a (currently very limited) 'intermediate level interface language' to the simpleplot library Is this correct ?

Having said that, it's not clear how specific font be requested for axis labels for example (to make consistent with any other text in the clearwin window ?


3. Are there any medium/long-term plans to take the 'integration' of simpleplot into the CLEARWIN+ 'higher level language' a step further i.e. with other 'options' to the %pl command , or indeed other commands or is it just not feasible given the limited development resources (manpower/money) which obviously must be a big understandable factor ?
I only ask this to help judge/decide if it's worth investing a lot of time developing a program using Simpleplot for graphing, or if it may essentially become redundant.
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PaulLaidler
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 7916
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SIMPLEPLOT is an old third party library released by a company that no longer exists.

1. All we have is the online manuals and the simpleplot.dll. There are one or two experienced users out there who may be able to advise further.

2. Yes this is correct.

3. No. The DLL is 32 bit only. Also we do not have the code. This means that we can not fix any problems and porting to 64 bit would require a pipe between 64 bit ClearWin+ and the 32 bit SIMPLEPOT dll. So Simple Plot is not supported in 64 bit ClearWin+.

Some possible alternatives are %gr, Simfit, and OpenGL (%og).
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1520
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re - 1. sorry Paul I wasn't precise enough. That sentence comes from the CLEARWIN (not simpleplot) manual here: http://silverfrost.com/ftn95-help/clearwinp/simplepl/introduction.aspx so, those "extensions are available for contouring and surface pictures ... " would be whatexactly ?

Re. - 3 ... mmmm a pity, but understandable for the reason of inability to repond to any 'bugs', although I believe the Simpleplot program was widely used and well developed, Silverfrost standpoint is completely justified. As for the 64 bit porting capability. I'm personally a bit sceptical of 64 bit need for 95% or more of FTN95 applications. I know there are some 'power' users no doubt out there who appreciate it's development for certain applications no doubt but I'd have thought some extensive but straight forward extension to internal plotting capabilities would be a certainly much better 'customer pleaser'. Just a comment FYI .
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aebolzan



Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 229
Location: La Plata, Argentina

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: (Maybe Not Quite So) Simpleplotting Reply with quote

John-Silver wrote:


Quote:
1. In the on-line manual (Simpleplot Introduction) it says "Extensions are available for contouring and surface pictures, presentation graphics for high quality output and representations of 4D data."
What is meant by these 'extensions' ?


see: http://silverfrost.com/manuals/fvisualization.pdf

Quote:
2. when using %pl , I assume that this is just a series of calls to simpleplot routines with 'default' parameters used for many things. i.e. it's a Simple simpleplot.
In fact it's just a (currently very limited) 'intermediate level interface language' to the simpleplot library Is this correct ?


That's correct!. You can use Simpleplot in a "simple" way through the %pl routine or in full power by directly employing the Simpleplot subroutines.

Quote:
Having said that, it's not clear how specific font be requested for axis labels for example (to make consistent with any other text in the clearwin window ?


Fonts is a problem with Simpleplot as you can only use the fonts provided by Simpleplot, which are not the best, but they work fine...you have to check that in the manual. See: http://silverfrost.com/manuals/fsupp216.pdf

Quote:
3. Are there any medium/long-term plans to take the 'integration' of simpleplot into the CLEARWIN+ 'higher level language' a step further i.e. with other 'options' to the %pl command , or indeed other commands or is it just not feasible given the limited development resources (manpower/money) which obviously must be a big understandable factor ?


already answered by Paul


Quote:
I only ask this to help judge/decide if it's worth investing a lot of time developing a program using Simpleplot for graphing, or if it may essentially become redundant.


It's up to you.....some people find it quite usefull others prefer to plot using the drawing subroutines of FTN95. I find that once you understand the implementation of Simpleplot, its easy and fast, and quite customizable, but limited in some aspects as it was developed in the 90' when FTNXX was a product from Salford not from Silvefrost...

By the way: I never tested SIMFIT, maybe it is fine, but I don't know if anynone in this forum have used it in order to make a comment about. As far as I understand, it is a program and not a set of subroutines for a fortran compiler......

Another option could be DISLIN (http://www2.mps.mpg.de/dislin/), which seems more up today. Never tested, but maybe worth to see....I do not know why it is not mentioned in the FTN95 site....DISLIN is free for non-commercial use and the lastest version is from 2013...

Best regards,

Agustin

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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 2813
Location: South Pole, Antarctica

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me offer the following. How about our UK guys find the guy who made this library (Intellius dot com or something?) and contact him. I do not see why he would say NO to releasing the code sources since product is essentially dead without further modifications.

Then we need just some minor cosmetic changes to add to it and it will become usable for the next 200 years.

Right now the Simleplot is simple & easy & and a bit buggy but mostly very very very ugly duck
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1520
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I think I remember seeing somewhere on here, or maybe somewhere else that the guy involved in the masterpiece that is Simpleplot (it does appear to be actually extremely extensive ) is retired ! The 'business' (BUSS) was also quoted as being Bradford University Science dept. ! Hence I understand silverfrosts position since the likelihood that the source code is knocking about somewhere (and complete) is somewhat 'slim' maybe and then there's the problem of getting the rights to use it (getting the right person to give the authorisation.
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1520
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aebolzan - thanks for the input ! Smile

re- 1. thanks - maybe Paul Laidler could add to his list to include a specific cross reference from the manual to the relevant part of the Visualization manual next time the former it is updated ?

Re- 2. confirms what I had already read in both cases. I shall experiment with them. I just thought there might be a way of circumventing that limitation using other fonts.

Thanks again Smile
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DavidButland



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 2
Location: Bridlington

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:08 am    Post subject: Simpleplot - can these dead bones live? Reply with quote

I am amazed to find that Simpleplot still has its friends after all these years.
Judy Butland designed Simpleplot for her Post Graduate Electrical Engineering research workers in the 1970's. It was well designed and continued to be developed for 30 years.
There's a lot of good stuff in there. If there are still any old Friends of Simpleplot out there, we would love to hear from you.
I stumbled across this forum by chance, and have offered to look at getting the last published version of Simpleplot working with the 32-bit ftn95 compiler. If this works, we can try the 64-bit compiler, but do not hold your breath.
Judy and I have long since retired to Bridlington in Yorkshire. We are currently engaged in helping 2 local school students design and market BridPlot - an Android app for graphing designed to be used in school science projects. See www.bussmk2.co.uk.
We still hold an annual reunion for old staff (and getting older) - a BUSS trip to Bridlington at the end of Summer.
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stenlou



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Germany and Denmark

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joh-Silver

I have used Simple plot a lot and are still using it. I can get most things done with it (for geoscience). I will be happy to help you occasionally (and when I have time).
Can also send you various code if you need. Simpleplot cannot handle that many fonts but at the end, that is just cosmetics!

Sten
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DanRRight



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 2813
Location: South Pole, Antarctica

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sten
Please post your screenshots (use postimage.org or something like that)
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John-Silver



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 1520
Location: Aerospace Valley

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sten, welcome aboard the SimplePlot train !
Your experience could be very useful.
Thanks to Dan's egging us along, and other invaluable experience from Agustin we've made quite a bit of progress in the last year in understanding better how SimplePlot works, or doesn't as the case may be, but there are still a few holes in our knowledge.
Be aware that Dan is very demanding on the plot aesthetics front ! Wink lol
There are several other posts on SimplePlot, I suggest when you get time you start a new thread, maybe with Dan's suggestion of just giving some examples of what you've typically been able to achieve in the past.
Welcome aboard the 2015 SimplePlot express !
John
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